    [Speaker A]: Environments, I think, is very talented.

    [Speaker B]: You saw them at the Norilsk Day celebration as well in Siberia. You mentioned something interesting that I'll just jump on for a second, if you don't mind. This is your third cinematic collaboration or multimedia collaboration. What do you, as filmmakers, learn from Ed, and what did Ed learn from you? I'd love to know how this relationship has changed each of you as artists, given that you're coming from different media. Ed, I'll let you take that first.

    [Speaker C]: Well, I mean, I've always had an interest in the film. And actually, when I went to Ryerson the first foundation year, you got to work with film cameras, and they had 16 millimeter bell and how old. So you wind up manually. And. And so I did. I. I loved it. In fact, my. My film teachers that were there at the time were saying, you know, you should really think about, you know, film because there's, you know, there's an aptitude. But I think it's still just using the kind of framing that I. That I had developed within large format work. The large format work, in many ways, is kind of, you know, the centralized, tightly dead headpan, tightly composed look is a. I think of like a Stanley Kubrick, you know, at least every frame is kind of, you know, carefully plotted and planned and movement and all of that. And it was really, you know, for me, the first low, manufactured landscape. I was more the subject, and I wasn't really that heavily, you know, part of the film and what was in it and how it's going to fall out. Being engaged with the process of ideation, of collaboration and then, you know, and the kind of complexity that film brings when you go to go to a location that, you know, you know, trying to, you know, get things all lined up and get the sound and the people and all the other things in film. So we move much more slowly. But it was, you know, to me, it was looking back, I wish I had, because I was always busy with my stills. I wish I had more time in the editing room. And that's always regret that I didn't have more time there because that's where a lot of the magic happens. If you look at a film like this, I don't know how many hours did we have? We're there for this film, like 200 and something hours to make a one and a half hour film. So there's a lot on the editing room floor and those decisions and making that process go, like years long. And I certainly couldn't afford that kind of time away and Jennifer's the patient one who knits while they're knitting the film together. But then we go see how it's going together. And music and I learned a lot about pace and music from them and how making sure that what you're listening to and what you're seeing are on the same wavelength.

    [Speaker B]: But do you approach an image now differently? Because when we were out in the field in Nigeria, you were involved, like in part with the filming, for sure. Do you think about images now differently, knowing that they're going to end up in this context rather than on a gallery wall?

    [Speaker C]: I do more backlit now. Watching Nick work with backlit, I always underestimated how good backlit is. So I do more backlit work. Yeah, that way. I always wanted frontal light or soft light.

    [Speaker A]: I'll just add that as a documentary cinematographer, if you travel the world with Ed Bertinski and come back with crappy pictures, you have only yourself to blame. But I think there's a great fascination when we came together and it evolved because, as Jen was saying, in manufactured landscapes, it was more about profiling. Ed and his practice as a photographer and a stills photographer and a large format stills photographer. And I think that, you know, when you always try and learn how to make the project you're making and really try and listen to and react to your material, it evolved, I think, quite organically a sort of philosophy of filmmaking for these projects, which was, I think, closer to the experience you get, let's say, standing in front of. Of a work of art where you, the audience member or the viewer have to sort of complete the meaning. You know, we leave you alone with images in a. In a edit like this longer than a lot of documentary films would. And we don't transmit a lot of exposition. We'll try and let the image and the sound and just that context convey meaning. But really you get time to have a dialogue or maybe, you know, have thoughts, mature.

    [Speaker D]: Sure.

    [Speaker A]: About what you're seeing. And I think that's a. That's a different experience than lots of documentary, which I think is fruitful for, you know, more contemplative subjects.

    [Speaker B]: Going back to that wall with. After this, I want to open up to questions, but were there ideas that you really wished would have made it? Is this go.

    [Speaker C]: But for.

    [Speaker B]: Because they weren't visually have a visual component or for one reason or another didn't. So I think that you're killing yourself.

    [Speaker E]: I really wanted to go to this place called Lake Karache. Lake Karache in Russia, which is one of the most Radioactive places on Earth. Like you have to wear a hazmat.

    [Speaker C]: Suit to go there.

    [Speaker E]: And you really can't even stand in front of this lake for more than five minutes without getting, you know, contaminated. So you can imagine that that was vetoed. But what was it? And because it was a. It was a storage place for nuclear waste. But what was just so heartbreaking about it is that it looked like a regular lake. Like, it looked normal. It looked normal. There were still trees around it and it didn't have. I just thought that it would be a fascinating story, but there was too. It was too difficult to tell. So that. That was one that I really missed.

    [Speaker B]: Okay, we have questions now. Time for questions.

    [Speaker C]: Raise your hand.

    [Speaker D]: We'll bring you the mic.

    [Speaker C]: One of the things I was. I was also hoping to get was something with the oceans. More like a big fishing trawler, industrial fishing factory or something. The herring. So we tried that quite some time, but it just proved to be impossible to. To get there, just to. Because oceans are two thirds of our planet and there are issues that are. We're facing there, that of scale that we don't actually get to experience. And these big factory ships that go in there and scoop up, you know, multiple tons of fish in one. In one spike and then can them right on. Right on the ship. It's, to us, was something we tried to get to but never got to.

    [Speaker E]: Don't be shy.

    [Speaker A]: Thank you so much. Just a simple question. In the process of filming, have you.

    [Speaker F]: Visited a location that made you weep?

    [Speaker E]: I'm from British Columbia. I grew up in. On Vancouver Island. And when we went to see the clear cuts, especially clear cuts of old growth, that was like, kind of devastating for me. And the other thing was, Ed didn't come with us to London when we went to the London Zoo. And Nick, at first, as a cinematographer, was like, there's no way we're filming in a zoo. Like, we're just. That's just not cinematic. I was like, but we. If we're talking about extinction, we're moving into. We're going back to the tusks. I really want to see these species that are. The only reason that they're still alive is because of, you know, the zoo is just a front for a conservation organization. Almost all zoos are like that now, except, well, not all zoos, but many zoos. And when I see that sequence of animals and they're either extinct in the wild and then you end up with Sudan, who is functionally extinct because he's the last One and his two sisters are aged and can never, you know, give birth. That was also a moment that really I found. Yeah, made me cry.

    [Speaker G]: So this film is about capturing change, a trajectory, and you did so at an instant on time. Have you thought about going back and revisiting the same subject material later on? I think this was seven years ago to measure that change. And another part is towards the end, I think the statement was made. And it kind of reminds me of what Buckminster said about utopia and oblivion and that we have the technology to, you know, make everything right, but just make everything. And it's disconcerting that the Anthropocene age was not recognized by the geologists. Are we getting in our own way? We have to wait for that generation to die and have the other geologists coming and scientists come in?

    [Speaker A]: Yeah, thanks for the. For the question. I mean, it would be hard to look at an increment of seven years, you know, compared to all of geological time. Although I'm sure, like I said before the film, you know, time seems to be speeding up. I bet there would be measurable change in all of those. Just speaking personally, I think, because a lot of the agenda of this series was to raise awareness about a crisis and a lot of our challenges, which I think is valid. But there was a kind of a shift, I think, for me after this, and maybe it's the heaviness of the places and the experience and also the weight of, you know, being part of the storytelling and putting this, you know, on. On other people deliberately, is that I would much rather now sort of move forward and try and find examples of optimism and inspiration and hope and people who have solutions and positive ways. And I think you can. You'll never raise all the consciousness, but if you can get a tipping point of moving forward, for me now, personally, just in my journey and in. In all of this kind of storytelling, that would be the next focus for me.

    [Speaker B]: So we've got one last question.

    [Speaker F]: Excellent film. I saw the show yesterday that was incredible, too. Everybody should check that out. You asked the question at the beginning, like, you know, this is, what, seven years old? Now a lot has changed. What feels different, seeing this, like, industry happening at this scale, it almost feels like inevitable.

    [Speaker E]: The.

    [Speaker F]: Aside from the acceleration of it, like, it just feels like, oh, God, of course this stuff happens. I guess the qu. Like, what's. What feels different for you guys? Because, you know, since COVID a lot has changed. The political situation around the world has changed. It's certainly changed here, but it also felt Kind of inevitable and like nothing's changed in the last seven years except for the acceleration. So I'm curious for you guys, like.

    [Speaker H]: What feels different or what's changed since then?

    [Speaker D]: Well, I wish I could say it's getting better, but it doesn't seem to be. There are things that are unfolding that are hopeful. In other words, things like alternative energies and wind and solar and solar is.

    [Speaker H]: Now becoming a cheaper alternative to energy than burning fossil fuels.

    [Speaker D]: And that I think ultimately the arbiter of where we go will be, you.

    [Speaker H]: Know, where there's economic advantage to going.

    [Speaker D]: You know, one way versus the other.

    [Speaker H]: Because it's cost effective and people can.

    [Speaker D]: Adopt it and it makes things more resilient. I think that's happening and I don't. Regardless of political changes, those movements are there and that technology is going in those directions. There's a lot of people working very hard and it is disconcerting when science.

    [Speaker H]: Is being disregarded and being dismantled and where big projects have gotten started and.

    [Speaker D]: The inefficiencies I see of democracy is changed and that change destroys what the other part built and never really got.

    [Speaker H]: To fruition and everybody got to get.

    [Speaker D]: The advantage of what they're building.

    [Speaker H]: And now something else comes in.

    [Speaker D]: And when I look at China, I'm still very extreme.

    [Speaker H]: I still follow China a lot. They're just kind of, you know, 50.

    [Speaker D]: Year plan going and now they're producing.

    [Speaker H]: You know, solar panels at a price.

    [Speaker D]: That almost everybody can afford. They're, they're green there, you know, economy.

    [Speaker H]: Their, their economy and their, their country.

    [Speaker D]: Faster than anybody else's. So there, I think there's a certain.

    [Speaker H]: That'S left the port and it's going.

    [Speaker D]: The right direction, but they're also entrenched.

    [Speaker H]: Interests that seem to continue to be able to influence their muscles. And I would say, you know, I'm.

    [Speaker D]: Sure, I'm not saying anything that people aren't seeing themselves. You know, there are interests in America.

    [Speaker H]: That are making sure that, you know.

    [Speaker D]: The climate change story is back, you.

    [Speaker H]: Know, back burnered and, and you know, satellites are being taken out of commission that are telling us which problem is and science is being degraded.

    [Speaker D]: So I mean, and I think hopefully.

    [Speaker H]: This is just a transient moment, another step back. I'm two steps forward, but I think that's what you got to see is one step back, two steps forward to keep positive.

    [Speaker I]: Oh God, like I'm not there. Like, yeah, we're in a dark, let's.

    [Speaker E]: Be honest about it.

    [Speaker I]: Like, I, I, you know, our joke is that it's another, you know, comedy from Mercury Films, which is why Nick is talking about, you know, we're working on a project that is more uplifting right now. But, you know, we were even scared to come here today from Canada. Like, we're worried about what was going to happen at the border from Canada. Like, just the fact that we're in that situation right now is kind of unbelievable.

    [Speaker E]: And.

    [Speaker H]: You know.

    [Speaker I]: I guess I don't, I haven't lost all hope. But I also think we have to be realistic about the fact that there are really nefarious forces at work that.

    [Speaker H]: Are.

    [Speaker I]: That are trying to turn back a kind of progress that has been made, especially with environmental issues, with climate, with social justice. Social and environmental justice are absolutely intertwined and they're both being dismantled right now in this country and, and around the world. So that's where we are that. Sorry to end on that note, but that's kind of.

    [Speaker H]: You can say something.

    [Speaker D]: Well, maybe just, just quickly, but in answer to the, you know, what places made you weep. Of course, everywhere we went was delayed. Deliberately weep worthy. And yet I think when you have a purpose and I'm so privileged to be able to, you know, have a, A vocation that I love and, and, and collaborators that I love and, and you get to do this work, it makes you feel less helpless.

    [Speaker H]: And I think that's the first person to say it.

    [Speaker D]: But the, the, the prescription, you know.

    [Speaker H]: For anxiety and depression about these things, there's absolutely action and so I think it's human to. Yeah. Maintain that optimism.

    [Speaker I]: I'm so glad that you can make our last words. It makes you feel less helpless because this is where we're going to have to end this.

    [Speaker B]: Thank.

    [Speaker H]: You. It.